New PC for Seven - advice please

[anykey]

I have been following the talk about your machines that run Seven and it seems x64 is the way to go.
I am thinking of building a desktop later this year. I don't need help with the building just yet.
What I do need is your thoughts on the parts I should consider/buy.

At the moment I have a 2.60ghz AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core with 128 memory cache and 2Gb RAM.
I am thinking of going x64 with 4Gb RAM.

I like the idea of getting a pre assembled bundle such as what Novatech do.
That is, a case, MB, CPU, heatsink/fan, and memory.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/barebones.html

As you can see I am in UK, so please don't talk about shops in your country. 

I surf the Internet, dabble with Office2007 Word n' Excel, Outlook, collect and tweak music files.
My music is playing all day long, thru my Hi-Fi system, from a T1 ext hard drive.

What I need to know is what spec would suit my requirements without overdoing the spend.
There is no budget in mind, that's why I am asking what spec.
I do not want a gamers machine.
The PC must be quiet.

Any ideas, please.
Thanks,

[sceadwe]

Hey anykey,

I'm in the US so I don't have much experience as far as what computer component sites there are available to you guys in the UK.

But I took a quick look around and found this site http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index.php

It isn't kits or components but you can basically choose everything you want and they will build it for you.

If you are wanting to do the actual building yourself here are a couple web sites I found

http://www.ebuyer.com/
http://www.dabs.com/
http://www.scan.co.uk/

[anykey]

sceadwe, thanks for going to that trouble to find suppliers.
However,
what I am after is your thoughts on the parts I should consider.
I need to know what spec would suit my requirements without overdoing the spend.

[javajolt]

Hi Anykey,

32 bit system are a dying breed, and everything is going 64bit.  The best advice I can offer is dual core without a doubt and put more money in your RAM as this is the least expensive way to increase not only the speed but the stability of your system.  Your video card would be next since your not going gaming, then 512MB DDR3 should be fine for a while.  Your HDD should be 7200 - 10,000rpm.  Be sure and have plenty of cooling.

Best of Luck,
javajolt

[anykey]

Aahh, this is just what I needed.
Thanks javajolt.
What you said is gooble-dee-gook to me, ha ha 
But it gives me a starting point from which I can google and find out what you are saying.
And what these terms mean, where I can get such bits of kit, and how much it's gonna cost me.
I agree cooling is important, but I must have quiet fans coz the machine is in the living room and that's where I play my Music. That is important to me.

[sceadwe]

Oh, I apologize for misunderstanding what you were asking.

But what javajolt said is good advice. I wouldn't get a single core anymore. Just cuz they are phasing out, get at least a dual core if not a triple or quad core.  And like javajolt said 32 bit operating systems are also phasing out. The difference between 32bit and 64bit is as follows, when you have an operating system or program that is 32 bit your cpu or processor will handle up to 32 bits of information at one time vs when you are running an operating system or program that is 64 bit your cpu will handle up to 64 bits of information at one time.  32 bit operating systems also can only address up to about 3 GB of RAM or system memory.  But a 64 bit operating system theoretically can address up to 128 GB of RAM although I don't believe there are very many motherboards that support more than 32 GB of ram currently and 4 to 8 GB should be sufficient right now. As far as a Hard Drive like javajolt said it should be 7200 to 10000 rpm which is the speed of the hard drive.  Hope this helps with some of the more technical things, also here are a couple links explaining 64 bit vs 32 bit and building a computer for the first time

http://www.start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=100&Itemid=61&limit=1&limitstart=3
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Build-a-Computer-For-Beginners-A-Simple-Guide-to-Building-Your-First-Desktop-PC&id=1649379
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1444&page=1

Good Luck and let us know what you decide to use and we can run through it for compatibility and double check things for you.

-sceadwe

[anykey]

sceadwe you're wonderful 
This is just the sort of info I am seeking.
I've read up on things without fully understanding what I am reading.
Both you and javajolt have explained things well. Thanks 

I have decided not to get dual core.
Are quod core systems very much dearer than triple core?

I have also decided to get 64 bit to cope with 4GB RAM.
Is 4GB entry level? Should I be considering something nearer 8GB?
Remember I am not a gamer.
I run my dual boot XP/Seven on 2GB.

As regards hard drives, is it just the rpm speed I need to consider...

[fogkeebler]

With the pace of technology moving at the current pace that it is, depending on how much you want to spend i would go with a mid level quad core CPU and as it was stated before "but your money where your RAM is". Get the fastest RAM you can and load up the machine with as much as you can shove in it. I think the x64 version of 7 will allow up to 8 gigs of ram.

This alone will keep you sped up and not have to worry about technology / software out running your computers capabilities.

Another over looked thing in the PC is the hard drive. All to often (im guilty of it) we settle for more space with less speed, which for the most part is ok but it could be better. As said before stick with something around the 7200 -10000 rpm range. Depending on when you plan on building this you might look at the new Solid State Hard Drives. Right now they are pricey and don't last very long compared to platter drives. But they may be reasonably priced and more reliable when your ready to build, not to mention the massive increase in speed.

On the same note as hard drives you might also take a closer look at your storage needs. I have become quite fond of the network storage boxes that are coming out on the market. I myself use an external USB drive for allot of my storage needs, That way i wont loose anything when Windows crashes (and it will) or if you get a wild hair and decide to re image your system. The network storage would be the way to go as it is many times faster then USB and more reliable. But they do come at a cost. 1 i looked at was just over 800 dollars U.S. and came loaded with 4TB of storage.

Hope this helps some. 

[anykey]

Hope this helps some. 

Yeah it does help.
You lot are talking in words I can understand. Thanks fogkeebler.

As to Hard drives, I am thinking of having a modest sized drive for the OS, and a second modest sized drive for my (everyday) data.
That's what I do now.
On top of that I have a number - not saying how many, ha ha - of Ext Hard Drives, ranging from 250gig to T1.
These contain backups/copies of my Music, Photos, Doc data, and of course my Acronis Images.

Solid State Hard Drives, that's the phrase that escaped me. Although you're saying they do not last as long. How do they know 

[sceadwe]

no problem anykey,

I would recommend the quad core over the triple core, just cuz (someone correct me if I am mistaken) triple core cpus are quad cores with one defective core and they are about the same price range. and if you buy an AMD quad core buy one with the name ending in 50 e.g. AMD Phenom X4 9750.  The ones ending in 00 I have read have some issues. As far as whether to go AMD or Intel, it is up to you. Intel tends to be more expensive and an Intel chip handles memory off the chip and on the motherboard whereas AMD chips handle memory on the chip which is slightly faster. But intel has better performance per GHz for instance an intel cpu clocked at 2.2 GHz generally run on par with an amd cpu clocked at 2.5 GHz but Intel also tends to run a tad more expensive than AMD, I personally went AMD cuz their chips are slightly less expensive and the AMD motherboards were slightly less expensive as well.  A lot of it is preference and you should ask people which they prefer and why so you can get an idea about the two.

As for RAM I would say 1 to 2 GB is entry and 4 to 8 is moderate to high and then 16 or higher is really high, if you are going 64 bit then I would definitely suggest you get at least 4 GB of RAM because I have read that you will notice the performance difference between 32 bit and 64 bit most once you hit the 4 GB level.  The main advantage of large amounts of RAM becomes clear when gaming(which you aren't doing) and rendering 3D models, working with large amounts of data, and editing media files.

With Hard Drives there are the two options of SATA or IDE, SATA is the newer and better of the two and have a transfer rate of 1.5 GB/s to 3 GB/s.  IDE is really not being used much anymore and most motherboards have more SATA ports and less IDE connections.  As for amount of storage, like fogkeebler said external storage is extremely advantageous and helps keep your data safe in the event of a system crash.  And T1 LAN storage drives are more expensive but faster.  External USB Hard drives are a bit more reasonable price wise but won't transfer data as quickly as a LAN storage drive.  I personally use a 320 GB external hard drive and keep all my media/ games/ and large amounts of data on there. Also internal drives for your system are a necessity obviously and you want to get something big enough to hold your multiple systems since you are dual booting, price range for internal SATA drives is decent with a TB (terabyte or 1000 GB) running about $100 US at newegg.com, and of course prices will vary depending where you buy. Solid state disks or SSD are also going to be extremely more expensive but will be totally silent.  A solid state disk is basically a large amount of flash memory, like what is in the USB sticks you can buy, that connects via SATA.  Per GB they are really a lot more expensive, but do read faster than standard HDDs.  Standard hard drives have a disc rotating in them with an arm that moves back and forth over this disc at high speeds, this movement is what you hear when your computer is "thinking". Newer hard drives are quieter, though and the amount of noise from most hard drives is trivial.

If you need more info just ask,

-sceadwe

[anykey]

sceadwe, it is a joy to sit here and read your post.
Thank you for taking the trouble to write it 

[sceadwe]

my pleasure anykey,

thats what I am here for

[javajolt]

Hello Anykey,

sceadwe has given you and all of us excellent advice regarding building a new machine. I too like reading his posts and absorbing his wisdom.

Like sceadwe has said concerning storage, SATA is the newest of hard drives, keep in mind, Yes, storage is important but not critical.  I am certain your new machine will have some kind of burner in it, which gives unlimited storage.

[anykey]

I have never taken to burning my archives.
I have boxes of blank CDs and DVDs that remain unopened.
I much prefer to backup to ext hard drive, but that's just me 

[javajolt]

Concerning storage there are numerous FREE online sites offering storage.  Hotmail provides 25GB FREE per account.
Gmail 7GB can be used as a Drag & Drop Hard Drive with an assigned drive letter. Only draw here is the 10MB limit on attachments.

Storage today for the most part is very inexpensive and should not present any problems.  Keep in mind if you're using internal or external hdd's keep a minimum  15-20% free for Defraging.

Double layer DVD burners are dirt cheap now days offering unlimited storage, and with lightscribe no need to use a sharpie any more.

Just a thought on all the storage options available to us for very little cost!!

[anykey]

..Storage today for the most part is very inexpensive and should not present any problems.  Keep in mind if you're using internal or external hdd's keep a minimum  15-20% free for Defraging

I have heard this story elsewhere. I am not sure it isn't a myth. (Grammar error: double negative  )
Alright, if you have a busy drive thrashing away all day with files being written left right and centre I suppose the files need a bit of space to move around, esp big files.
But for Storage, and I mean archive storage, with files stored for safe keeping, I cannot see the logic in having to keep a minimum  15-20% free for Defraging  :-/
I stand to be corrected

..Keep in mind if you're using internal or external hdd's

What other sort are there, ha ha 

[psyhokinetik]

I builded my system specialy for Vista , but with Seven runs like a beast...

[anykey]

I builded my system specialy for Vista , but with Seven runs like a beast...

and...

[psyhokinetik]

first off all, what is your budget...?
if you have the dow just take the high end latest releases in hardware ...

[anykey]

There is no budget in mind, that's why I am asking what spec.

[psyhokinetik]

if you have the dow...

Intel® Core™ i7-965 processor Extreme Edition
Intel® Desktop Board DX58SO
Grafic Card -XFX GX-280N-ZDF9 GEFORCE GTX280, PCI EXPRESS 2.0, 1024MB DDR3, 512BITS, 602/2210MHz, TVO, 2xDVI, HDCP, SLI
OCZ OCZ3P18001G DDR3 (240) 4x2GB PC14400 1800MHz CL 8-8-8-24, Platinum Z3 XTC HeatSpreader, PLATINUM EDITION
Hard disk 1 server Seagate 73GB SAS 10000 rpm 16MB Savvio 10K.2
Hard disk 2 SEAGATE 1 TB 7200RPM, SATAII, 32MB/NCQ, BARRACUDA 7200
Power Supply Termaltake W0230RU 850w
Case TERMALTAKE VA9000BWS KANDALF, Black, SECC, 2xUSB 2.0, IEEE1394, AUDIO PORTS, 2x 12CM FAN REAR/FRONT, 1x 9CM FAN TOP



if you don`t have it...

AMD Phenom 9950 X4 Quad-Core Processor 2.6GHz
Main Board ASUS M3N78-PRO,
Grafic Card  ASUS EN9800GTX/HTDP_512, GEFORCE 9800GTX, PCI EXPRESS 2.0, 512 MB, 2xDVI, HDTV/HDCP, TVO, SLI
2x KINGSTON KHX8500D2K2/2G DDR2 KIT 2GB (2x1GB) 1066MHz CL5, HyperX
2x HDD  SEAGATE 500 GB, 7200RPM, SATAII, 32MB/NCQ, BARRACUDA 7200.11
Power Supply THERMALTAKE W0142RE 500W 14CM FAN PFC

[anykey]

Wow that's some list psyhokinetik.
Thank you.
It has given me something to think about 

[psyhokinetik]

here you can build a system by your specifications...
http://www.anitec.ca/pc_builder/

[anykey]

Ta
I shall have a look-see.

[anykey]

AMD Phenom 9950 X4 Quad-Core Processor 2.6GHz
Main Board ASUS M3N78-PRO,
Grafic Card  ASUS EN9800GTX/HTDP_512, GEFORCE 9800GTX, PCI EXPRESS 2.0, 512 MB, 2xDVI, HDTV/HDCP, TVO, SLI
2x KINGSTON KHX8500D2K2/2G DDR2 KIT 2GB (2x1GB) 1066MHz CL5, HyperX
2x HDD  SEAGATE 500 GB, 7200RPM, SATAII, 32MB/NCQ, BARRACUDA 7200.11
Power Supply THERMALTAKE W0142RE 500W 14CM FAN PFC

Just popped in to say Done It.
Thanks for all the help esp psyhokinetik.

This is what I got:
AMD Phenom II X4 940 3GHz Socket AM2+ 6MB L3 Cache Processor
Main Board ASUS M3N78-PRO GeForce 8300 Socket AM2+ onboard graphics
4 x KINGSTON KHX8500D2K2/2G DDR2 KIT 2GB
2 x HDD  SEAGATE 500 GB, 7200RPM, SATAII, 32MB/NCQ, BARRACUDA 7200.11
Antec Sonata III Piano Black Quiet Mid Tower Case with 500W EarthWatts